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	<title>Comments on: Anti-immigrant fervor</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/</link>
	<description>A sniff in the kortevar, that what you cry for, yeled?  A prert up the cull, a prang on the dumpendebat?</description>
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		<title>By: Hanque</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/comment-page-1/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=124#comment-271</guid>
		<description>How come RP gets to see your back and others don&#039;t?

One problem with approaching this issue under multiple bills is that if one bill tanks, it could undermine the efficacy of the remaining bills and whole policy that might eventually pass.   Example: The legislature may pass effective bills on health care issues and immigration, but it might not pass a bill related to immigration law enforcement.  If the law enforcement aspects of the whole policy aren&#039;t enacted, it could undermine the health care aspects by overtaxing the health care system with too many immigrants.  If a collective bill is passed, it will guarantee funding for all the issues it contains. It will set a comprehensive policy instead of a partial policy that requires a lot of babysitting and cooperation to even get it enacted. 

Additionally, getting bills through congress is notoriously difficult.  It costs more money and takes up more time.  Sessions have to be convened more frequently and anyone in opposition to the bill can tank it easily using simple parliamentary tactics. It&#039;s difficult to get things done in the legislature, so I think that pragmatically we should approach it in one vote.  Sort it out at the committee level and use the congressional staff and experts effectively.  They do this all the time and they&#039;re effective at it. Plus, more bills = more riders and more pork.  One omnibus bill provides less opportunities for riders and pork.

Also, there are greater opportunities for the bills to die in committee if there are too many of them.  A big bill can probably make it through easier.  Plus the minority party can exert a good deal of influence at the committee level and bring its effective power to bear in one campaign.  This is important.  If the bill is split up, each aspect of the issue could be lost in the legislative fog and the issues could drop off the constituent radar and out of the press.  How many people care about immigrant education initiatives or health care?  I would guess that most people don&#039;t.  But, most people do care about law enforcement.  So the minority democrats can push education and health care by supporting law enforcement in the bill.  It&#039;s a better way for the democrats to gain concessions and be effective.  

Also, approaching an issue with one omnibus bill has been used effectively in the past. Some examples of this are COBRA and HIPAA.  These two acts really cover a lot of ground and have helped reshape critical issues related to health care.  

I think approaching this issue with more than one bill is less effective.  I would argue that it&#039;s in everybody&#039;s interest to go after this issue with a single legislative act.

I leave you freaks with two tasty links:

(read the post from 12/18/2003 on the below)
http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How come RP gets to see your back and others don&#8217;t?</p>
<p>One problem with approaching this issue under multiple bills is that if one bill tanks, it could undermine the efficacy of the remaining bills and whole policy that might eventually pass.   Example: The legislature may pass effective bills on health care issues and immigration, but it might not pass a bill related to immigration law enforcement.  If the law enforcement aspects of the whole policy aren&#8217;t enacted, it could undermine the health care aspects by overtaxing the health care system with too many immigrants.  If a collective bill is passed, it will guarantee funding for all the issues it contains. It will set a comprehensive policy instead of a partial policy that requires a lot of babysitting and cooperation to even get it enacted. </p>
<p>Additionally, getting bills through congress is notoriously difficult.  It costs more money and takes up more time.  Sessions have to be convened more frequently and anyone in opposition to the bill can tank it easily using simple parliamentary tactics. It&#8217;s difficult to get things done in the legislature, so I think that pragmatically we should approach it in one vote.  Sort it out at the committee level and use the congressional staff and experts effectively.  They do this all the time and they&#8217;re effective at it. Plus, more bills = more riders and more pork.  One omnibus bill provides less opportunities for riders and pork.</p>
<p>Also, there are greater opportunities for the bills to die in committee if there are too many of them.  A big bill can probably make it through easier.  Plus the minority party can exert a good deal of influence at the committee level and bring its effective power to bear in one campaign.  This is important.  If the bill is split up, each aspect of the issue could be lost in the legislative fog and the issues could drop off the constituent radar and out of the press.  How many people care about immigrant education initiatives or health care?  I would guess that most people don&#8217;t.  But, most people do care about law enforcement.  So the minority democrats can push education and health care by supporting law enforcement in the bill.  It&#8217;s a better way for the democrats to gain concessions and be effective.  </p>
<p>Also, approaching an issue with one omnibus bill has been used effectively in the past. Some examples of this are COBRA and HIPAA.  These two acts really cover a lot of ground and have helped reshape critical issues related to health care.  </p>
<p>I think approaching this issue with more than one bill is less effective.  I would argue that it&#8217;s in everybody&#8217;s interest to go after this issue with a single legislative act.</p>
<p>I leave you freaks with two tasty links:</p>
<p>(read the post from 12/18/2003 on the below)<br />
<a href="http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN" rel="nofollow">http://maddox.xmission.com/hat.....#CLUETRAIN</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart" rel="nofollow">http://www.thebestpageintheuni.....?u=walmart</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dumpendebat</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/comment-page-1/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>dumpendebat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 01:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=124#comment-269</guid>
		<description>The thing is, I don&#039;t remember ever stating anywhere that I felt we should not have borders, nor do I think I said anything about legal immigrants joining (or not joining) the ranks of our country.  That&#039;s why I don&#039;t understand what made Lycfyg angry this time.  Usually he manages to have a reason for calling me stupid.

I think maybe it&#039;s just his way of telling me &lt;em&gt;Welcome back&lt;/em&gt; from my blogging break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, I don&#8217;t remember ever stating anywhere that I felt we should not have borders, nor do I think I said anything about legal immigrants joining (or not joining) the ranks of our country.  That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t understand what made Lycfyg angry this time.  Usually he manages to have a reason for calling me stupid.</p>
<p>I think maybe it&#8217;s just his way of telling me <em>Welcome back</em> from my blogging break.</p>
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		<title>By: RP</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>RP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=124#comment-266</guid>
		<description>Glad to see your back!

Concerns over who to allow to immigrate have always been part of our national discourse.  Hell, Franklin worried about political enclaves of German immigrants.  Recently though it&#039;s gotten really ugly.  True colors are being flown.  Immigration from Mexico really stirs the passions of &quot;White America.&quot;  150 years after disgracefully attacking Mexico in order to expand slavery assholes like Savage feel compelled to argue that we are under siege from &quot;dirty Mexicans&quot; who want to take every thing hard working Americans have labored for.  As with many arguments from these hard right fascists, it would be funny if they weren&#039;t so determined to have their way.  

Simply being born here is sort of like starting off on 3rd base.  At least one of your readers DPF thinks he&#039;s hit a triple.  Our country is so much more than its geographical demarcations LQ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see your back!</p>
<p>Concerns over who to allow to immigrate have always been part of our national discourse.  Hell, Franklin worried about political enclaves of German immigrants.  Recently though it&#8217;s gotten really ugly.  True colors are being flown.  Immigration from Mexico really stirs the passions of &#8220;White America.&#8221;  150 years after disgracefully attacking Mexico in order to expand slavery assholes like Savage feel compelled to argue that we are under siege from &#8220;dirty Mexicans&#8221; who want to take every thing hard working Americans have labored for.  As with many arguments from these hard right fascists, it would be funny if they weren&#8217;t so determined to have their way.  </p>
<p>Simply being born here is sort of like starting off on 3rd base.  At least one of your readers DPF thinks he&#8217;s hit a triple.  Our country is so much more than its geographical demarcations LQ.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dumpendebat</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/comment-page-1/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>dumpendebat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=124#comment-264</guid>
		<description>Take a deep breath, calm yourself down, and then try leaving a comment that actually addresses something in the blog post.  What is it with you and the nasty comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take a deep breath, calm yourself down, and then try leaving a comment that actually addresses something in the blog post.  What is it with you and the nasty comments?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lycfyg-LQ</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/11/19/anti-immigrant-fervor/comment-page-1/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>lycfyg-LQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=124#comment-262</guid>
		<description>Hey stupid, if you don&#039;t have borders - you don&#039;t have a country.
If legal immigrants do not join the ranks of your country - you have a divided country.
I would check to see if your deck has every card in it.
Nope, you are a liberal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey stupid, if you don&#8217;t have borders &#8211; you don&#8217;t have a country.<br />
If legal immigrants do not join the ranks of your country &#8211; you have a divided country.<br />
I would check to see if your deck has every card in it.<br />
Nope, you are a liberal.</p>
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