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	<title>Comments on: Petitio principii</title>
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	<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/12/04/petitio-principii/</link>
	<description>A sniff in the kortevar, that what you cry for, yeled?  A prert up the cull, a prang on the dumpendebat?</description>
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		<title>By: dumpendebat</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/12/04/petitio-principii/comment-page-1/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>dumpendebat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=138#comment-290</guid>
		<description>The only sane response is to mock these people and expose them for the gibbering looney-tunes they are.  Anyone who&#039;s capable of claiming, with a straight face, that the ACLU is &quot;anti-American&quot; has forfeited any claim to seriousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only sane response is to mock these people and expose them for the gibbering looney-tunes they are.  Anyone who&#8217;s capable of claiming, with a straight face, that the ACLU is &#8220;anti-American&#8221; has forfeited any claim to seriousness.</p>
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		<title>By: Sadiq</title>
		<link>http://dumpendebat.net/2005/12/04/petitio-principii/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Sadiq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpendebat.net/?p=138#comment-286</guid>
		<description>Thank God for the Religious Reich!

Don&#039;t people realize that we need organizations like the ACLU? They serve as a watchdog agency to the government, trying to make sure that they don&#039;t get out of hand. Sure, a lot of their crusades are asinine, but that&#039;s just the nature of the beast. When people aren&#039;t allowed to speak out against their government without fear of reproach or censure, society totters on the verge of fascism. 

If what the government did was reprehensible and the ACLU is calling them on it, then let&#039;s all agree that what the government did was reprehensible rather than make an issue out of the ACLU. Let&#039;s stay on the topic--the actions of the government. Let&#039;s ask the questions, (1) are the allegations true, and if so, (2) are the actions acceptable. Who cares if it was the ACLU or the Heritage Foundation who brought them to light?

The ACLU is not unpatriotic. Mark Twain (a fine, upstanding American by anyone&#039;s reckoning) defined patriotism as something to the effect of &quot;supporting your country always and supporting your government when they deserve it&quot;. Groups such as the ACLU don&#039;t scrutinize the policies of the American government because they hate America--far from it! They scrutinize the policies of the American government because they LOVE America! Alexander Hamilton (I think) said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and watchdog groups believe this whole heartedly. The reason they are so up the American government&#039;s collective arse and not doing the same thing to the governments of other, more atrocious regimes is because the governments of those other countries don&#039;t represent THEM! They don&#039;t care nearly as much about what is going on in Egypt or China or Germany because they&#039;re American.

I roll my eyes every time the ACLU takes some idiot&#039;s case who stuck his arm in a wood chipper and is now suing the company because he thinks that it&#039;s because of racism. But the next time I hear about the ACLU defending some poor black guy who is pleading innocent for raping a white heiress and, while running from the police, shooting a cop in front of a dozen witnesses before being arrested on the scene, I&#039;ll thank god for the ACLU. Not because I think that the guy should walk. (hopefully, the dozen witnesses and DNA evidence will make sure he rots for the rest of his life) But because there are still people out there who will represent anyone, and not for the money, but because they believe that everyone&#039;s constitutionally protected freedoms and liberties are worth defending.

Here&#039;s a bit right from their web site:

&quot;The ACLU frequently defends the rights of free religious expression for all people.  In Michigan, high school officials agreed to stop censoring religious yearbook entries after the ACLU intervened on behalf of a Christian student.  In other states, the ACLU has supported the rights of students to distribute Christian literature at school.  Recently, the ACLU of Indiana defended the First Amendment rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.&quot;

And Mason says that &quot;The ACLU are a bunch of sick people who fight for anything that’s anti-American, anything that’s dirty or vulgar, and they hate anything that’s respectable or decent.&quot; 

What doesn&#039;t match up there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank God for the Religious Reich!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t people realize that we need organizations like the ACLU? They serve as a watchdog agency to the government, trying to make sure that they don&#8217;t get out of hand. Sure, a lot of their crusades are asinine, but that&#8217;s just the nature of the beast. When people aren&#8217;t allowed to speak out against their government without fear of reproach or censure, society totters on the verge of fascism. </p>
<p>If what the government did was reprehensible and the ACLU is calling them on it, then let&#8217;s all agree that what the government did was reprehensible rather than make an issue out of the ACLU. Let&#8217;s stay on the topic&#8211;the actions of the government. Let&#8217;s ask the questions, (1) are the allegations true, and if so, (2) are the actions acceptable. Who cares if it was the ACLU or the Heritage Foundation who brought them to light?</p>
<p>The ACLU is not unpatriotic. Mark Twain (a fine, upstanding American by anyone&#8217;s reckoning) defined patriotism as something to the effect of &#8220;supporting your country always and supporting your government when they deserve it&#8221;. Groups such as the ACLU don&#8217;t scrutinize the policies of the American government because they hate America&#8211;far from it! They scrutinize the policies of the American government because they LOVE America! Alexander Hamilton (I think) said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and watchdog groups believe this whole heartedly. The reason they are so up the American government&#8217;s collective arse and not doing the same thing to the governments of other, more atrocious regimes is because the governments of those other countries don&#8217;t represent THEM! They don&#8217;t care nearly as much about what is going on in Egypt or China or Germany because they&#8217;re American.</p>
<p>I roll my eyes every time the ACLU takes some idiot&#8217;s case who stuck his arm in a wood chipper and is now suing the company because he thinks that it&#8217;s because of racism. But the next time I hear about the ACLU defending some poor black guy who is pleading innocent for raping a white heiress and, while running from the police, shooting a cop in front of a dozen witnesses before being arrested on the scene, I&#8217;ll thank god for the ACLU. Not because I think that the guy should walk. (hopefully, the dozen witnesses and DNA evidence will make sure he rots for the rest of his life) But because there are still people out there who will represent anyone, and not for the money, but because they believe that everyone&#8217;s constitutionally protected freedoms and liberties are worth defending.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a bit right from their web site:</p>
<p>&#8220;The ACLU frequently defends the rights of free religious expression for all people.  In Michigan, high school officials agreed to stop censoring religious yearbook entries after the ACLU intervened on behalf of a Christian student.  In other states, the ACLU has supported the rights of students to distribute Christian literature at school.  Recently, the ACLU of Indiana defended the First Amendment rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.&#8221;</p>
<p>And Mason says that &#8220;The ACLU are a bunch of sick people who fight for anything that’s anti-American, anything that’s dirty or vulgar, and they hate anything that’s respectable or decent.&#8221; </p>
<p>What doesn&#8217;t match up there?</p>
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